5.24.2007
Signed, Sealed
Tonight was the night John Smoltz finally, definitively, won himself a key into Cooperstown. He became the first pitcher in MLB history -- that's right, first ever, HoF voters love that sort of stuff -- the first pitcher ever with 200 wins and 150 saves. Read the recap: It basically makes the case for him by prominently mentioning his other alltime record, that of postseason wins (fifteen against four losses). It's also filled with quotes from teammates like McCann (whose current vocabulary apparently doesn't extend beyond "amazing" and "awesome") and veteran opponents like Shawn Green that begin to obliquely refer to him as one of the alltime greats. Smoltz and Curt Schilling will probably walk hand in hand to Cooperstown, being very comparable pitchers and both well-known for postseason heroics.
But seriously people. No matter what JAWS and anyone's bedrock pitching statistics say, John Smoltz is a Hall of Famer. He showed up before the latter-day Atlanta dynasty began, became the team's ace immediately, took a backseat for a few years to Glavine and Maddux but re-emerged as the Cy Young winner in 1996 and the team's ace closer in the early 'aughts. He and manager Bobby Cox are the only ones remaining from the dark ages of the eighties, they're still going strong, and they won't be gone until it's over. For what amounts to a 17-year run, there aren't many players in history who can say the same. And if it is ultimately the numbers you are compelled to come back to, don't forget to tack on a postseason career that basically amounts to a full season of Cy-caliber pitching against the absolute toughest opposition.
In a beautiful twist, it was the Mets and old friend/foe Tom Glavine he beat, in the sort of classic throwback 2-1 pitcher's duel that both aces used to routinely enjoy in Brave uniforms. A big game, too: taking the rubber match to make it the third two-out-of-three from the Mets in what's shaping up to be a promising season. Glavine's quote ("I'm happy for him personally. I'm not happy it came against us, and against me") seems to contain the minimum praise required for so momentous an occasion, not uncommon fare from one of the least charismatic pitchers in recent memory. He was always the sort who would slip a quote to the press about his grandmother if he thought it'd help him get ahead somehow. No matter, this was Smoltz's night anyway, and Glavine falls to 3-11 against Atlanta. Ooh...that has to sting a little bit.
Also note the repeated mentions of it feeling like a "different" game throughout: that's the effect of the crowd, which from time to time has gotten a bad rap in Atlanta. (Sometimes from yours truly.)
[Since Deadspin was kind enough to link to us, we'll do the same since they can always use the traffic boost, ha ha.]
But seriously people. No matter what JAWS and anyone's bedrock pitching statistics say, John Smoltz is a Hall of Famer. He showed up before the latter-day Atlanta dynasty began, became the team's ace immediately, took a backseat for a few years to Glavine and Maddux but re-emerged as the Cy Young winner in 1996 and the team's ace closer in the early 'aughts. He and manager Bobby Cox are the only ones remaining from the dark ages of the eighties, they're still going strong, and they won't be gone until it's over. For what amounts to a 17-year run, there aren't many players in history who can say the same. And if it is ultimately the numbers you are compelled to come back to, don't forget to tack on a postseason career that basically amounts to a full season of Cy-caliber pitching against the absolute toughest opposition.
In a beautiful twist, it was the Mets and old friend/foe Tom Glavine he beat, in the sort of classic throwback 2-1 pitcher's duel that both aces used to routinely enjoy in Brave uniforms. A big game, too: taking the rubber match to make it the third two-out-of-three from the Mets in what's shaping up to be a promising season. Glavine's quote ("I'm happy for him personally. I'm not happy it came against us, and against me") seems to contain the minimum praise required for so momentous an occasion, not uncommon fare from one of the least charismatic pitchers in recent memory. He was always the sort who would slip a quote to the press about his grandmother if he thought it'd help him get ahead somehow. No matter, this was Smoltz's night anyway, and Glavine falls to 3-11 against Atlanta. Ooh...that has to sting a little bit.
Also note the repeated mentions of it feeling like a "different" game throughout: that's the effect of the crowd, which from time to time has gotten a bad rap in Atlanta. (Sometimes from yours truly.)
[Since Deadspin was kind enough to link to us, we'll do the same since they can always use the traffic boost, ha ha.]
Labels: atlanta braves
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12-11, 14-11, 14-13, 15-12, 15-11, 6-10, 12-7, 15-12, 11-8
Just some of the "glittering" seasons John Smotlz has had as a starter on great teams. And his post season money reputation?..built on a 12-12 lifetime postseason record.
Cast my vote as a "NO".
Just some of the "glittering" seasons John Smotlz has had as a starter on great teams. And his post season money reputation?..built on a 12-12 lifetime postseason record.
Cast my vote as a "NO".
Uh, as stated in the article, he's 15-4 in the postseason. His teams are 12-12 in winning/losing series.
Also, if you're using wins as your only criterion, you're an idiot.
Also, if you're using wins as your only criterion, you're an idiot.
Yesterday at this time he was the only pitcher in MLB history with 199 wins and 150 saves.
One win gets him in???
One win gets him in???
I heard somewhere that John Smoltz's carrer winning percentage is slightly below the Braves overall winning percentage since he's been on the team. Or, put more specifically, the team has a better records in games that he doesn't start. Does that keep him out of the Hall of Fame?
@monty: And starting 1/2 of those games he didn't start most of the time? Oh, Maddux and Glavine. Two surefire HOFers.
Smoltz is in, get off it.
Smoltz is in, get off it.
Alright, kbr7171, you’re entitled to your opinion, but let’s set the record straight here. You’re wrong about the postseason record. The Braves have won 12 series and lost 12 series that Smoltz has appeared in. Smoltz has a 15-6 record in those series, never losing more than once in a series. You can check the facts here.
Smoltz did post those won-loss records, but again, you’re missing the boat. For one, the first two seasons you listed, 1989 and 1990, were far from “great” teams. The Braves didn’t start winning division titles until 1991. In 1990, the Braves finished with the worst record in baseball. So you may want to think of those two years as if he were playing for someone like the Kansas City Royals today. Smoltz also posted ERA’s of 2.94 and 3.85 in those two years. So yeah, I’m going to go out on a limb and call those seasons pretty “glittering” when you factor in what he had to work with.
Also, the 14-13 record in 1991 isn’t sterling, but if you followed the Braves that season (not an indictment, I’m just saying) you’d know that Smoltz started off absolutely terrible in the first half, but for the second half stretch run, Smoltz went 12-2. Including the Division clincher against Houston. Not to mention he went 8 shutout innings in Game 7 of the World Series in the greatest WS pitching duel ever.
I’m not going to keep going through seasons one by one here, but here are a few more numbers to throw at you.
2.94, 3.85, 3.80, 2.85, 3.62, 4.14, 3.18, 2.94, 3.02, 2.90, 3.19, 3.06, 3.49 – those are Smoltz’s ERA’s for his twelve seasons as a starting pitcher. And these are the seasons you failed to mention: 24-8, 17-3, 14-7, 16-9.
Cast my vote as “YES.”
Smoltz did post those won-loss records, but again, you’re missing the boat. For one, the first two seasons you listed, 1989 and 1990, were far from “great” teams. The Braves didn’t start winning division titles until 1991. In 1990, the Braves finished with the worst record in baseball. So you may want to think of those two years as if he were playing for someone like the Kansas City Royals today. Smoltz also posted ERA’s of 2.94 and 3.85 in those two years. So yeah, I’m going to go out on a limb and call those seasons pretty “glittering” when you factor in what he had to work with.
Also, the 14-13 record in 1991 isn’t sterling, but if you followed the Braves that season (not an indictment, I’m just saying) you’d know that Smoltz started off absolutely terrible in the first half, but for the second half stretch run, Smoltz went 12-2. Including the Division clincher against Houston. Not to mention he went 8 shutout innings in Game 7 of the World Series in the greatest WS pitching duel ever.
I’m not going to keep going through seasons one by one here, but here are a few more numbers to throw at you.
2.94, 3.85, 3.80, 2.85, 3.62, 4.14, 3.18, 2.94, 3.02, 2.90, 3.19, 3.06, 3.49 – those are Smoltz’s ERA’s for his twelve seasons as a starting pitcher. And these are the seasons you failed to mention: 24-8, 17-3, 14-7, 16-9.
Cast my vote as “YES.”
Monty, you heard wrong. I just ran the numbers and Smolt'z winning percentage is 59% for his career during the regular season. During that time the Braves have a 56% winning percentage in games in which Smoltz did not factor into the decision. Take out the years that he was a closer and the Braves winning percentage goes down even more. During the post-season, the Braves are right at a 50% winning percenage while Smoltz comes in with a win 79% of the time. Clearly he has been a big part of this team and will surely be a first ballot HoFer.
# posted by 
: 1:32 PM
: 1:32 PM
I'm a HUGE Smoltzie fan, and I think he'll easily have enough to get into the HOF by the end of his career. First ballot? Probably not. But undeniably rock solid with several star years, and a post season wins record? Done.
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